| Subject | Re | Created By | Start Date | Last Post | ||
| i have been asked to find friends for j | [5] | here I am | 5 May 15:17 | 19 Mar 12:05 | ||
| children of divorce | [18] | Anonymous | 19 Jan 00:22 | 1 Dec 17:08 | ||
| Does anyone else take offense to this? | [10] | Anonymous | 3 Mar 14:11 | 24 Oct 17:33 | ||
| hi any married guys here who are conside | [2] | yankle770 | 19 Oct 11:01 | 23 Oct 14:29 | ||
| Tsarfatit | [0] | imAriRuti | 16 Oct 20:12 | 16 Oct 20:12 | ||
| Page 1 of 5 1 ·2·3·4·5 Total of 23 Threads | ||||||
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children of divorce |
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| One of the things I find so interesting about the "shidduch crisis" is what people are failing to mention in articles, lectures, etc. We are a generation, even us Jews, that is suffering from an epidemic of divorce and broken families. This being the case, why the hell would we want to get married?? I am not saying that all marriages end up this way. I have happily married friends that really give me inspiration. In the same vein, I really hope to build my own family, G-d willing. However, a lot of us are raised by parents who are either divorced, separated or otherwise have dysfunctional marriages. This subject really seems to be hush because I don't hear about it in relation to the "shidduch crisis" but I know it exists. Not only for me, but for a lot of the people I know. I think that as children being raised by parents that don't know how to be married, we may not have learned adequate relationship skills, such as communication and the ability to trust. I am bringing this up because I am curious about what you all have to say. | |
| By: Anonymous - Scared to get marrie | |
Comments:
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I've actually realized that some of my apprehension in some relationships draws from my totally dysfunction family, and the terrible relationship of my parents. They never fought, or didn't get along, but they were just not right for each other, and although they love me and my sibling, they don't really love each other deeply, other then what they've grown to as a married couple. |
| Anonymous - Apprehensive - 19 Jan 12AM |
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I think the premise from which you are starting must be looked at a bit more closely. The lemma of your situation seems to be that our parents’ generation had far worse marriages than previous generations. However, why should we assume that from our grandparents to our parents’ generation all of a sudden people stopped knowing how to communicate? I believe the answer to this is that nothing changed, but people’s expectations and ability to cope did change. This change in people’s ability to cope and their expectation caused people to be more open to the idea of divorce as an answer. Why the change? Because… 1) Less stigma attached to divorce. 2) Easier to live on one’s own, especially for women, but even for men too. 3) Movies, cinema, books, etc have screwed up people’s expectations. That doesn’t mean a problem doesn’t exist. Divorces are painful, not just for the couple but for their kids as well. Thus I believe the level of divorce is not desirable. The question is how to lessen it. For this I’m at a bit of a loss, however here are some of my musings…. Better communication skills would help, but how much better can we truly make communication. That is people are people. Another possibility is for people to change their expectations of what they expect out of marriage (see point 3 above). Perhaps people should be more accepting of their spouse being different from them. Having different philosophies, goals, etc. A short story from Shul: I once remember a female in Shul who complained that she wasn’t married. The Rabbi asked her what happened in her last relationship. She said it was okay, but that she wanted her marriage to be really, really, really, really perfect (she really used those many reallys!). The Rabbi turned to her and said, and that is why you are not married. Anyone else with some ideas? |
| Harper 19 Jan 9AM |
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We have to treat each other with such care and keep in mind that we are fashioned in Hashem's image and that all of us are very fragile and must able to give 100% to the relationship without any expectations of getting it back. Listening and really hearing what the other is saying is crucial and credibility and validating your spouse is so very important. This generation has the advantage of being aware of all of these issues and concepts that your parent's generation (my generation) did not have. We were taught to just accept the status quo, and not to air our dirty laundry and to be quiet about problems. Now we have good friends, counsellers, clergy, therapist and books and tapes that we can avail ourselves of. I believe in marriage and I know that there are some good ones out there. No I don't want to go through divorce again and yes I have certain expectations. We all must put a value upon ourselves. Nonetheless, we have to be aware of our own shortfalls and work on them so as not to sabotage a first or additional relationship/marriage. Our partners must be patient and learn to overlook some of our faults as we must do that for them. Obviously, I am not speaking of abusive behaviour...that must be gotten rid of immediately...if it can't be worked on in a healthy way i.e. therapy. counselling, etc. There is a generation of messed up young people in their twenties and early thirties who have seen dysfunction in their families and have no ideas at all about how to start and maintain a healthy marital relationship. Their role models were not ideal to achieve the right and correct way to have a good marriage. But we are privy to self introspection, books, videos and professional help. We must avail ourselves of any and every avenue to do what we can to guarantee the most advantageous and healthy relationship possible. We owe that to ourselves and to the next generation. I wish hatzlacha to all of you and we should go from strength to strength and find our proper besherets but we must do our homework and communicate, communicate, commuicate and listen, listen, and listen and really HEAR what the other is saying and validate them. We are all of us fragile beings but we are strong and have been blessed with the attributes that Hashem first blew into Adam. Let us find and cultivate love and value it and cherish our partners until 120 years. AMEN |
| here I am 20 Jan 4PM |
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I agree with the ranters argument, i mean, if u grow up wit a disfuntional family, then your goin to have a hard time trying to emulate a FUNCTIONAL family. If there was no foundation for proper family values, when a child was younger its going to be much harder for them to want to build a "normal" family or even start dating for those values |
| Anonymous - Meh - 22 Jan 10PM |
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Meh, I guess the question I have on this is what is a dysfunctional home? Is one in which parents get divorced by nature dysfunctional? The reason I ask is, once again, I can’t see anything that really changed peoples ability to live together in our parents generation except that divorce became more palatable than in their parents generation. However getting back to your point, if I understand you correctly, the generation which took the divorce route according to you screwed up the next generation (unintentionally of course)? Which I guess begs the following question… Is it better for the kids if parents to stay together in a bad marriage (here I’m not talking about a violent or abusive marriage, just one in which for whatever reason the couple no longer love eachother)? That is would the present generation have better skills had their parents stayed together? I used to think not, but perhaps in reality the answer is yes. In that what our parents taught us was to walk away from our problems and not to face them. Any thoughts? |
| Harper 24 Jan 3AM |
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Well Harper, I never actually mentioned divorce in my comment, the author of the thread uses that as a "maybe" reason for the dating crisis, however, I feel its only a little part of it. Divorce is very hard on the children, take any psychology course, the child no matter how loving both parents are, will have some lasting effect of the divorce, its part of human nature, the child may blame themselves for their parents problems and so forth. As for my definition of a dysfunctional family, I don't necessarily put divorce as the only or main criteria for this characteristic. Lately I think drugs and alcohol is a leading contribution to the unstable foundation of the family principals placed in children and young adults in our generation. I'm not here to solve the dating crisis, just if you need reasons for the problem, gosh darn it; they are all over the place :) Disclaimer: I may be wrong in my assumptions, my parents are not divorced, and there is no drugs or alcohol in my family, but this is the feeling I get when I talk to my friends in whom these issue are prevalent. |
| Anonymous - Meh - 24 Jan 1PM |
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Meh, Okay, perhaps I phrased my last post poorly, let me try again. But first let me state, what I am trying to get at. I am trying to understand a few things I guess. How do pepole think we ended up (if it is true) in a situation where homes are more dysfunctional then they were say a generation or so ago? What happened to cause this? Is it society around us intruding on traditional Jewish values? It would appear to me that drugs and alcohol were always to one extent or another a problem in society. West Side Story alludes to it. I doubt it would have been put into the film if the people at that time couldn't relate to it. West Side story was made around what 1960? That is already more than 40 years ago. Perhaps it is only a matter of degree, but then I'm still left wondering why did things become more dysfunctional. Any ideas? In my first post I was contemplating that perhaps nothing has really changed as far as how dysfunctional people are, just the effect their dysfunction causes. That is if divorce is more acceptable, then people are less likely to put up with someone who is dysfunctional, etc. And continuing with your thread, perhaps drugs and alcohol are simply effects of people being dysfunctional that we are seeing more today because drugs are apparently easy to get (or so I've been told). Of course I could see that this then perhaps causes a downward spiral. That is if people have more of an ability to indulge their dysfunctionality then their children will have less of an opportunity to see positive role models and will therefore end up even more dysfunctional. But all of the above is just musings in my mind. I'm not psychologist, I'm just a curious engineer. So I'd be interested to know what you and others think. |
| Harper 24 Jan 3PM |
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Well people should not be scared to get married. We have to have bitachon in hashem and if we get into a bad marriage it' because hashem wanted that to happen to us. We have to do our job by making sure you feel comfortable with the person you are dating and if so we have to take a risk and get married. |
| Eli 24 Jan 10PM |
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Right on Eli! The fact is that we don't have as much control over our destiny as we think. We have to do our best to do G-d's will and have faith that He is doing the rest. |
| Jennifer 25 Jan 12AM |
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I agree the best we can do is our best and the rest we must leave to divine providence. However, we still must do our best. I also agree that people shouldn’t be scared of getting married – well not very scared. At least not scared to the point of being afraid to commit. But just like we go to a doctor when we are sick instead of just saying, “well G-d wants us to be sick,” I believe it is good for people to ask why here too. That is why are more families dysfunctional, why are more marriages not working out, why are more people seeming afraid of getting married, etc. Much like with being sick, in which apparently G-d wants us to seek out the cure, so to here we should not just admit to the problem but also try and find the solution. |
| Harper 25 Jan 7AM |
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To Harper Well one solution may be to learn two halachos of shmiras halashon every day and whoever learns from sefer Chofetz Chaim he will be your shield in heaven. Infact Rebbitzen Kanievsky read a letter from the late Rav Segal who said he did not see anyone who learned two halachos from sefer chofetz chaim every day who did not have success. |
| Eli 25 Jan 11PM |
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Eli, I don’t really believe in “segulot” so I don’t necessarily believe this is anything more than chance. However, learning never hurt, so if someone wants to try I guess I wouldn’t dissuade him. However, either way, you have given a solution. Not the reason behind the problem. It is what has caused the present situation to develop which interests me more. Only after people come up with the reason(s) that have caused the present situation to occur, can a solution be rationally thought up. However, since no one has been willing to take a stab at the reasons, I guess it is just one of life’s mysteries. - Either that or anything not under the label of “Dating Discussion” gets very little attention from most people on this site! |
| Harper 26 Jan 2AM |
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Hi Harper, I think there are a myriad of reasons why divorce is so prevalent. One is that the stigma to being divorced is being removed so people are more likely to get divorced. Secondly, we live in a society where everything is disposable, including relationships. Women have means to support themselves so it's easier today than 50 years ago for a woman to leave her husband. In terms of dysfunction, people were always dysfunctional but now people talk about it more. Also, as the moral fiber of society breaks down, the more dysfunction there is. Someone mentioned drugs in the sixties. The sixties is when the sexual revolution began and when drugs began to be prevalent. Before that I don't think street drugs were as common, but alcohol and sedative abuse were still problems. As people lose spirituality and society's focus on materialism increases, so does anxiety and that will lead to substance abuse. In general, we live in a culture that says do what u feel. Even Jews are influenced by this. Divorce has become a way of life. Also, children used to be raised by their mothers. Now, both parents usually work and the kids are left with babysitters. Do those babysitters care what they do? Usually not. Do Day Care personel care about the kids? No. So basically kids are spending all day with people that don't really care and parents are tired bc they work so much. It's much easier for kids to get into drugs this way and to get into other trouble. I know there are some good babysitters out there. I'm just describing some of the reasons why I think society is breaking down. There are some things I really don't understand. I have some friends that have been physically abused by their parents on many occasions, or their siblings have. Usually it's because these people have been abused themselves and havent broken the cycle. Did this exist b4? I'm sure it did - but no one spoke about it. When Oprah came along in the 80s people started talking about their problems. I'm pretty tired so this post is not flowing but I'm just giving u some reasons off the top of my head as to why families are breaking up. I will tell u something though. My friends that are happily married have one thing in common - they are givers who truly care about their spouse. In addition, they are spiritual people who have G-d working in their lives. They have a higher purpose and they are humble enough to work on themselves. These things make all the difference in a relationship. |
| Jennifer 26 Jan 10AM |
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To Harper Rav Kanievsky's wife said that the reason there is alot of tzorus going on in the world is because because curse and reccomended that people learn two halachos of shmiras halashon a day. Infact there is a few stories when where a mother who had older children not married either went to Rebbitzen Kanievsky or Rav Segal not sure which one and was told to learn two halachos of lashon hara a day three days later that womans first child got engaged and two months later another child got engaged. There was another case where someone parent had a tumor in the brain and was told to do the same thing and that person came back a few later and said the tumor is gone. These are just a few of many examples why people should start learning two halachos a day of lashon hara from sefer chofetz chaim. People should try it because there is nothing to lose by that. |
| Eli 26 Jan 2PM |
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Eli, I'm really excited because I recently bought a pg. a day from the Chofetz Chaim and have been learning it. I'll keep you guys posted if I see any miracles. (Although there are many miracles occurring every day that we don't realize.) |
| Jennifer 26 Jan 2PM |
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To Jennifer You have to learn two halachos everyday which means for example you have the learn the chapter that says day one and the chapter that says day two on the same day etc. This is because each day has one halacha not two. Of course if after learning two halachos of lashon hara a day and than either gets a call or meets and perspective match and than rejects for a picky reason it's possible a person could reject their bashert also and than learning those halachos may not help. A person cannot lose their bashert until they reject it. |
| Eli 26 Jan 2PM |
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Speaking as a mother of 3 who is divorced I think what matters is that each parent, or at least the main carer for the children, is stable and happy in himself. Getting divorced has been very hard at times and my 11 year old son was very shaken by it but now at 14 he is stable, happy, mature and a great guy. The girls were younger and adapted. They are secure children who I hope and pray will go on to have secure, loving relationships with spouses in the future. I think to the contrary, being brought up in a family where parents are arguing, unfulfilled and unhappy is really damaging and bodes ill for the future marriages of those children. So it is not so black and white with blaming the shidduch crisis on divorces, in my opinion. |
| Ester 11 May 7PM |
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The reason why there are so many divorces in my opinion is the following: 1. To start everyone wants the Brady Bunch family which is supposed to sustain itself. News for ya: it doens't marriage takes WORK. 2. Most people want the impossible partners: i.e. the best looking, best monied, etc etc etc. Newsflash again: Looks have an expiration date the neshamah does not. 3. People tend to dwell too much on their past relationships to even give good ones a chance. Keep an open mind people. 4. We now live in a society that it has become ok not to accept responsibility. So divorce and excuses are easier than trying to work at it. Now I know that the last comment will stir some emotions but ask yourself this: If you didn't know who the person really was or the person changed, then iwasn't it YOUR responsibility to get to know the person better? And no one can tell me that one did not have 2 minutes in their day children or no children to talk and to be kind and to make the other person feel special. Feedback would be great :-) |
| JEWBAN518 1 Dec 5PM |
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